Season 3: Episode 11 Practical Ways to Support People at Risk of Redundancy

Welcome to Redundancy

Matters with me, June Hogan.

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This is the podcast where I help

HR professionals and leaders

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managing redundancies to put

people at the heart of the process.

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And if you've not tuned in before,

it's really great to have you

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here, and thanks for listening.

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I'm a qualified career coach.

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I'm also an outplacement specialist, and

I've got a background in HR, and I've been

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working with individuals and organizations

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So today, I'm talking about some of the

practical things that you can do during

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a redundancy process that sit outside

of the formal consultation meetings.

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These are practical ideas that I hope

will help ensure that people feel heard

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and supported throughout the process.

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Now, I know from my own experience what

it can feel like to feel isolated during

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a redundancy process, and how much of

those kind of seemingly small things

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would've had a big impact on me, not

only, only during the process itself, but

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also afterwards when I began the work of

rebuilding my confidence and really trying

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to figure out what I was gonna do next.

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So these things that I'm sharing are

from my own experience on both sides

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of the redundancy table, from the years

of supporting clients with outplacement

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support, and reflecting on their feedback

on processes that landed well and

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maybe those that didn't land so well

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So I think sometimes we might

underestimate how much the small

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things really matter when you're

planning a redundancy process, or maybe

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you're focusing on the legal aspects.

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Perhaps there's pressure from the

leadership team to get all of this

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completed as soon as possible, as

there's a focus on cost and a focus

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on the timeline and all the planning.

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But there are lots of things that you

might not see on a spreadsheet or see

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on a plan that really make a difference.

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Things like the line manager who checks

in outside of those formal meetings,

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who's available, who really understands

and wants to speak to those members of

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their team who are at risk and offer

them support and guidance where they can.

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Then there's the HR manager who might

take a few minutes of their time to

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explain how recruiters shortlist CVs,

for example, because there'll be lots of

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people at risk of redundancy who haven't

had to look for a role in some time.

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Some people have never had to look for

a job, and I certainly see that when I

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work with individuals in outplacement

support who have had very long careers in

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some cases, and in some cases very, what

you would call successful careers, up

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to senior manager, director, and beyond,

and they've never had to look for a job.

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So that opportunity to just sit down

and spend some time with people,

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again, can make a big difference.

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Also, there's the willingness to

listen to what's going on for someone

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outside of those consultation meetings,

or perhaps someone who makes a warm

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introduction to their network and

offers insights on feedback and

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potential career direction for somebody.

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Really making sure that individuals

know that they matter even though

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they're going through a redundancy

consultation process because at that

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time nothing is final, no decisions

have been made, and they're still an

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employee and a member of the team.

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It could be the LinkedIn recommendation

or the support or comment on someone's

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open-to-work posts, for example,

or just the conversations around

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rebuilding confidence and recognizing

that redundancy doesn't affect

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everyone equally, and so some may need

more specific support than others.

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And those are some just a few of the

things that really matter to people

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that I know from my own experience and

also experience supporting clients.

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Because those are often the things that

people remember years later, and they're

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things that people share with me where

they felt like they were really treated

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like an individual and not just like a

number on a spreadsheet in a process.

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One of the things I also notice is

that there's often a misconception

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that communication can only happen

during formal consultation meetings.

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'Cause unfortunately, when communication

disappears or slows down, then people

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will fill in the gaps themselves,

and they'll usually do that with

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worst case scenario situations.

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So depending on the timeline for

consultation, there might not be much to

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say for a while after the announcement.

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But I'd recommend not leaving that void

for people to fill in the gaps themselves.

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So my recommendation would be to

communicate even when you have nothing

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to say, which might sound a bit weird.

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But reinforcing messages that might

not have landed completely the first

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time, and letting people know that

this is still on your radar, things

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are happening in the background, and

encouraging line managers to stay

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visible and accessible at all times.

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And for some line managers, this could

be their first time leading a process.

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They might not feel confident about

having informal meetings, but people

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don't necessarily expect their

managers to have all the answers.

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What they're looking for is their

presence and their support, and not

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the avoidance that I've sometimes

heard clients share with me that

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can happen after an announcement.

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Because they want someone to know that

they haven't disappeared just because

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the situation might feel a bit awkward.

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And some managers can get this

wrong because they become frightened

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of saying the wrong thing, so

then they say very little at all.

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But even if the line managers aren't

sure, then they can say so, and they

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can arrange to get answers or set up a

meeting with a member of the HR team.

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But being visible and supportive

is what really matters.

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It's not about knowing

everything, and it's also not

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about making things up either.

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Now, in terms of support, most

people don't need that kind of

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forced positivity at these times.

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The kind of, "Oh, you've got this, you'll

be fine," messaging, which comes from

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a place of good intentions, but doesn't

actually help anyone in that moment.

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Because honesty and empathy are

way more important than that.

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And I recorded a separate podcast on

the power of empathy in redundancy

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situations, and I'll put a link to that

in the show notes, because there's a huge

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difference between sympathy and empathy.

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So some line managers, and indeed,

you know, we, we're all, um,

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sort of guilty of this, I guess.

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And, um, empathy is harder than sympathy.

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But sympathy can be things like, "Oh,

well, at least you've got some money.

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At least you've got a good payout.

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I'm sure you'll land on your feet,

and everything happens for a reason."

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Now, these are unintentional because

they're not, that they don't come

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from a place of well-meaning.

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But what they do serve to do is

kind of push away what someone

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might be feeling and try to get

the conversation to move on.

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So if you've ever been on the other

end of one of those statements,

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you'll sort of think, "Oh, okay.

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Well, maybe you're right.

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Yeah.

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I, I have got some

money so that, that's...

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Yeah, I'll just stop talking

about that now, shall I?"

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Um, or, "Everything happens for a reason."

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Yeah, okay.

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Hmm.

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Yeah.

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Well, you might think that,

but, but maybe I don't.

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So- it's about moving the conversation

forward from that individual's

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perspective, rather than encouraging

the, uh, individual to open up and to

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talk more about what might be going on.

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So that sympathy can kind

of create the distance.

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Whereas empathy is more about

things like, "I'm, I can appreciate

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this is a difficult time for you.

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There's a lot of uncertainty,

and I guess that's very hard."

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Or things like, "You don't need to

have everything figured out right now."

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So those are sort of sometimes

reflective statements, but they just

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allow the individual to know that

you're happy for them to continue

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talking about what's on their mind.

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And also using silence is hugely

important as well to give the individual

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some time just to reflect and to think

about what they might want to say next.

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And one thing that I've learned from

coaching people through redundancy

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is that everyone is carrying often a

lot more than we might all realize.

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So I've worked with people who are

worried about their finances, people who

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on the surface of it you might not think

might be worried about their finances.

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I've worked with people who are worried

about their age, people who are wondering

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if their skills are still relevant, some

who haven't interviewed in 15 years or

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more, or ever, some who are trying to hold

everything together for their children

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while pretending that they're coping,

and others who are having to provide care

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and take on additional responsibilities

for their children, their relatives,

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and people within their community.

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And so that's a lot to deal

with when you've got redundancy

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on top of all of that as well.

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So it's about being able to support

people, to look for the signs, to

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have those open conversations, and

to importantly signpost where there

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might be extra support or specialist

support that might be needed.

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And again, I'll put a link in the show

notes to a free download that I've got

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that gives some guidance on signposting.

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And we'll come on to talk about financial

signposting in a minute as well,

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'cause I think that's something that's

really important to help to support

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people through the process as well.

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So there might be some people

for whom redundancy is a relief,

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so I certainly have worked with

individuals in that situation.

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So for some people who were planning

to leave anyway perhaps, but just

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didn't know how to or had the courage

to, it could be that they are excited

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and looking forward to leaving, maybe

financially this is the best thing for

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them So those people are gonna need

support too in how to manage their

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reactions and their emotions in front

of others for whom this is devastating.

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And so I think they can still be

empathetic towards colleagues, but

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they might need some support from

yourselves or from line managers

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on how they do that in the best

way, and what does that empathetic

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approach really look like for people.

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So as well as these things, I

think there's some real value

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in asking what people, what

support would actually help them.

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So asking those at risk what

support they need, and then

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gathering topics for group sessions.

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So you can use the employee reps for

this, um, if you're in collective

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consultation, or you can do it in

individual meetings if you're not.

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And what this does is it really

helps to give people a sense of some

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control when the process can feel

out of control and overwhelming.

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You're asking them what would they

want and helping them to make some

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decisions and have some agency

and advocacy over these things.

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Because the support that you're

going to offer, and you may have

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already lined up some support, you

may already have an outplacement

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provider in place, for example, it's

only supportive if it feels relevant.

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So if you are using an outplacement

provider, then I'd encourage you to ask

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them if they can tailor their support.

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Or if you're doing things internally,

then really making sure you're

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providing what people actually need,

not what you think they might need.

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So for example, I recently

worked with a client who was...

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who had asked for a workshop,

and they wanted to include a

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section on presentation skills

as part of a recruitment process.

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This is something that came up during

collective consultation, and so I was able

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to adapt and tailor the workshop to suit.

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I've also had requests in the past for

specific support in specialist areas such

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as the design and creative space, and

I've been able to arrange that for people.

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So if you're in doing this internally,

you could set up something simple like

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informal lunch and learn sessions,

and you can use the internal talent

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team if you have a talent team or

working with the HR team yourselves.

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And this is an opportunity to bring some

really great value to people because we

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often forget what feels obvious to us

is completely unfamiliar to someone who

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hasn't had to look for a job in a while.

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People don't really know how

recruitment works, and there's lots

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of noise online about some things

which are completely untrue and other

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things which are just made up for

kind of clickbait on social media.

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So people don't know how

applicant tracking systems work.

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People don't understand how AI

fits into a recruitment process.

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They don't really get that recruitment

might be very different to how it was when

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they were previously looking for a role.

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There's the kind of one-page CV advice

conflicting with the two-page CV advice

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And maybe when they last applied for

a role, it wasn't about tailoring your

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applications and CVs, you just kind of had

one and you sent it off to lots of people.

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So when people un- don't understand

something, then particularly when

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there's a lot of ghosting within the

recruitment process at the moment,

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there's a lot of people putting time

and effort into applications and then

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hearing nothing, then they can assume

that it's a kind of a personal thing.

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Maybe they're not good enough.

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Maybe, you know, that's it,

they'll never find another job.

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So I think bringing some reality to

how the recruitment process works

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is a really useful thing that the HR

team can do for people, um, just to

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prepare them and to bring them up to

date with best practice, et cetera.

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And I think it's also great to be

realistic about this with people

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from the start so they're not

building up false hope about what

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that landscape might look like.

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Now, practical support is super

helpful and so some of those things

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that I've just described really

focus on things that are practical.

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And bringing in an outplacement provider,

they can do this, that's their specialism,

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that's what they do, or you can ask,

uh, to have individual support if that's

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more appropriate or if you're only

running, um, a small reorganization.

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But it's about helping people to build

their confidence at what can be a

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difficult time with a lot of uncertainty.

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Another area I think organizations

sometimes underestimate is the

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financial fear that redundancy creates.

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So I've worked with, you know, what on

the surface of it are highly capable,

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senior or financially stable employees.

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They can still experience huge

anxiety when the uncertainty about

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their regular income appears.

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And often people won't openly admit

that they're worried about these sorts

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of things 'cause there can be a huge

amount of shame attached to redundancy.

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So they'll talk about things like

updating their CV or applying for jobs,

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but underneath all of that, there might

be a panic about mortgage payments,

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childcare costs, their pensions, or

maybe even just how long their savings

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are realistically gonna last them.

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So practical financial wellbeing support

can make a huge difference, not just

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kind of a general wellbeing message,

but it's the practical guidance.

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And I'll put a link in the show notes to

a really great session that I had with

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money expert Abi Birch, who's got some

super useful and practical tips on how

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to signpost and support people at risk

without treading over those boundaries.

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Because this isn't about you as a HR

professional or as a line manager digging

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into someone's finances and offering

them personal advice and information.

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It's about having the opportunity to

signpost them to those people who can.

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But you could include sessions from a

specialist around budgeting, bring in

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your pension provider, for example,

explaining how redundancy pay and tax

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implications work, and then signposting

to debt, mortgage advice support, or

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simply just helping people understand

what financial resources and potential

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benefits that could be available to them.

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Because when people are emotionally

overwhelmed, then that kind of financial

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uncertainty just really increases.

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And of course, there's the emotional

impact of redundancy, which I talk

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about a lot on the podcast, and I've

coached senior leaders who suddenly

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feel completely lost after redundancy

because work was a huge part of their

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identity, a huge part of their life,

and that emotional side of redundancy

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is something that organizations might

unintentionally overlook because

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they're really focused on the process.

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But redundancy for anyone, no matter how

senior you are, is emotional, even when

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people expect it, because it's still

attached to way more than an income.

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It's still attached to identity and

self-esteem and how people show up

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in the world and their place in the

world and their sense of purpose.

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And even when maybe they dislike their

job or they got a good package, those

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emotions can still come out, maybe not

straight away, but they will come out

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because there's the grief, the loss of

routine, and sometimes even the shame of

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redundancy, no matter how it's come about.

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So there's a lot of unpacking there

to do, and I think that's one of

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the benefits of career coaching

as part of outplacement support.

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And so when redundancy can feel

like it's out of control for people,

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then regaining a sense of control is

something that's in your gift that you

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can do during the consultation process.

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So often res- decisions are

happening behind closed doors, maybe

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timelines might feel a bit uncertain.

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People might be having incomplete

information because decisions haven't

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been finally made, and so this can all

compound the feelings of confidence

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and powerlessness So I think if you

can actively look for ways to help

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people regain that sense of control,

and that might mean maybe allowing

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flexibility for interviews so everyone's

entitled to reasonable time off

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if they're at risk of redundancy.

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So being flexible as much

as you can about that.

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It might mean encouraging managers to

protect some time during the week to

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support people with looking at their CVs

or helping them to have access to the

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technology to sign up for job updates and

to do recruitment research, et cetera.

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It might mean offering different

types of support for different

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groups of people so that they can

feel that they're being treated

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according to their particular needs.

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And simply giving people choices as

well and asking them that question,

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you know, "What do you need right now?"

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Because depending on how long the

consultation process is depends on

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how long you've got to offer people

support, and that support might change

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at times during, uh, the consultation.

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'Cause that choice really matters, and

even those small moments of autonomy can

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really help to restore some confidence and

give people that sense of dignity as well.

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I've talked a lot about line managers

throughout all of this because they do

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have to carry very much of the process.

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Yes, as an HR team, we're there

to support people, but they will

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be seeing members of their team

go, and that can be really hard.

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And some of them can be

delivering messages that they

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fundamentally disagree with.

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Some of them are quietly

terrified of upsetting people

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because it's a difficult message.

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Maybe they've not had to do it before.

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And some will just emotionally

detach because they don't know how to

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handle difficult conversations, and

others become a bit kind of overly

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optimistic because they really can't,

uh, tolerate sort of sitting with that

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discomfort and that uncomfortableness.

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So managers need coaching through this

too and real guidance to communicate

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like a person, not like a robot,

not like someone reading a script.

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And I'll put a link in the show notes

to a couple of episodes that can help

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in terms of preparing line managers

for redundancy consultation meetings.

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Because as I said before, people

don't expect perfection from their

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managers during this situation, but

they do notice when they're absent.

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They do notice when they're avoiding them.

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And they do notice when

they're not showing up.

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So it's important to maintain that

connection and not just to move

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into sort of a cold procedural

mode because line managers are

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afraid of saying the wrong thing.

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So building in this coaching up front,

checking in with them during the process,

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and making time for them along the

way just to check in on how they're

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doing as well is an important part of

supporting people through the process

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And of course, I talk a lot

about this on the podcast.

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It's important to remember that how an

organization handles redundancy really

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shapes the trust during the process,

but also after the process ends.

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Because the people who

remain are still watching.

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The future candidates who will be joining

your organization will hear those stories.

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It's a very small world.

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And beyond that kind of reputation and

employer brand that is important, it's

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just about humanity and being a human

and doing the right thing for people.

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Because most people understand that

businesses will need to restructure.

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But what most people struggle to

forgive is that feeling of feeling

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discarded during that process.

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And so sometimes the support someone

receives during redundancy becomes the

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thing that helps them rebuild faster.

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And whilst you won't be able to remove

the pain of redundancy entirely because

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it's a necessary business decision,

you can change how someone feels about

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it while they're going through it.

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And that's what I hope that this podcast

helps people to do, to support people

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through redundancy with kindness,

with compassion, and with dignity.

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And so I hope that help- the episode's

been helpful today, and really thank

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you so much for listening, and I

hope you'll tune in again soon.

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Thank you so much for listening

to the Redundancy Matters podcast.

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I hope you found today's episode helpful.

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It would mean a lot to me if you

would follow rate and review this

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podcast wherever you listen to your

podcasts, as this helps it reach more

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people who are managing redundancies.

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Let me know what you thought,

and if you have ideas for future

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episodes, I'd love to hear from you.

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You can find me on LinkedIn, June

Hogan, and get in touch via my

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website, wildwood coaching.co.uk,

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where you'll also find more resources

to help you manage redundancies.

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I hope you'll join me again soon for

the next episode of Redundancy Matters.